A Conversation Between ICBOH and Ben Wu
Australia Smart Homes, Buildings, and Offices
Discussion on The Market Overview, Regulation & Compliance, System Integration, and Market Entry.
Director, Digital Home Systems
Sales and Marketing Director at Retail Media
Deputy Editor - Retail World & Convenience World
Member Relationship Manager, OOSGA
On the sixth of July, the Commerce Development Research Institute (CDRI) has hosted the Smart 360 Panel Discussion Event. Backed by Bureau of Foreign Trade (BOFT) and coordinated by OOSGA Global Intelligence Team, our mission is to help and promote better relationship between Taiwanese and Australia companies.
We had the honor to invite six experts in the sector of smart home, smart buildings, and smart offices in Australia and had a great discussion full of insights across domain such as the market overview, the regulation & compliance, market entry strategy for Taiwanese suppliers, and system integration.
In the end, we also welcome our member at Wow! Taiwan Project to ask experts questions and enable our member to better understand Australian smart devices industry from the perspective of market and some technical standpoints.
Original Version Here.
About This Panel
This panel discussion was made possible by the great support of the Bureau of Foreign Trade, CDRI, and OOSGA.
Huge thanks to all the experts joining the discussion including Paul Dearlove – Director at IBMS, Miroslav Reitikh – Co-founder at Digital Home System, Matthew Desnton, Partner at Fiftyfive5 – Daivd Cowell – Sales and Marketing Director at Retail Media, Nicholas Rider – Deputy Editor at Retail Media, Frank Mahmud, Member Relationship Manager – OOSGA.
Panel Discussion: Opening & Intro to Experts
Mason Chen: Alright so.. I’ll uh leave the conversation to Josh uh Josh is the director of CDRI and he will introduce us to suppliers member and start the event.
Josh Kang: Hello everyone. I’m josh director of Marketing and New Media Division from CDRI thank you all for attending today’s project online IoT seminar host by Taiwanese of trade CDRI and OOSGA Taiwan.
Today we are honored to invite many Australian industrial experts from the IoT system integrator, distributor, telecom, consulting firm, and retail media – including that the director of eastern region of IBMS company, director of digital home system, partner of social and community team at FiftyFive5, management of Telstra Telecom, and sales and marketing director from retail media.
In this panel discussion, our Guest experts will give an overview of the Australians IoT market suggestions for market entry strategies and related topics about small products application and regulation next. let’s get started. I will hand the conversation over to today’s host Masa.
Mason Chen: Alright thanks Josh, And also thanks to Bureau of Foreign Trade for sponsoring this event. Thanks to CDRI for basically coordinating resources and conversation to make this happen.And many big thank to all the speaker joining today. I know you all have very very busy schedule and it’s a great honor for us to have this conversation with you guys
Finally uh I would like to thank all the Taiwanese member joining today. Today’s discussing is all about you uh I hope the discussing can enable you to understand the Australian market better and perhaps even open up some windows opportunity in the future when you are expending your businesses here.
uh alright so first what uh so first I I would like to introduce each expert so that we all have some general understanding how who is talking and who has what Domain of expertise.
So first up is Frank. Frank has over 20 years of experience in Australia and he also have like six seven years of experience in Singapore uh previously working for Telstra, AVAYA and is very very knowledgeable in the field of ICT and he currently is working with us at OOSGA and has been assigned to the Wow! Taiwan Project so welcome Frank.
Frank Mahmud: Hey thanks uh thanks so much for us I think this is a fantastic opportunity and I think what I was saying during the break in the beginning. I think it’s the beginning of something uh pretty exciting so I’m really looking forward to it thank you so much for asking me to join.
Mason Chen: Yeah thanks Frank and and also I think one thing I forgot to to add is Frank actually talked with uh 500 – 600 Taiwanese oversee buyers over the past couple of months so he has really you know uh a good understanding of what outside companies perceived how many suppliers so that’s really great.
Second I would like to uh introduce and welcome you to Matthew and Matthew has decades of experience in a research industry and is currently a partner in FiftyFive5 it’s an Insights driven consulting firm and it’s one of the leading in Australia so Matthew. Welcome to the panel discussion.
Matthew Densten: Yeah thanks thanks for the invite Masa and I’m really looking forward to um sharing what I can on the Australian market um so yeah thanks for the invite.
Masa Chen: Yeah thanks Matthew and third up is David uh so along with Nichola. David works with a retail media company and is the sales and marketing director at the company and one of their media publication called retail world uh is 75 years old and it’s one of the oldest and prestige in the retail media landscape in Australia. And Nicholas is a journalist at the same company. He will come in and take notes of the conversation yeah so uh maybe I I don’t think I I introduce you uh uh very good but maybe you can add something to us.
David Cowell: Thanks Masa, no that was that was beautiful um yes as you mentioned the retail media where I publishing house here in Australia um we’ve been working within the the grocery convenience and and pharmacy industries for over the last 75 years uh very excited to be here and appreciate the opportunity to I guess share some of our Insights, hopefully that uh permanent to the group and uh you know open up some opportunities for your suppliers and provide them with some information as to what’s happening in those markets specifically um so as Masa mentioned how in the director of sales marketing and Nicholas right up is um one of the um part of our editorial team so Nick I’ll let you introduce yourself.
Nicholas: yeah so I’m the deputy editor um of retail world and convenience um as as David said retail world is a grocery focused magazine and then convenience world is a magazine that goes out to the petrol and convenience industry um industry across Australia so I’m I’m working across both magazines and um yeah um myself and David are hoping to find a few sort of conversations and get a few um and hopefully that we can yeah help you in in some shape or form.
Masa Chen: Yep thanks David and Nick last and really welcome you to learn discussion and next up uh I’m gonna introduce you guys to Slava. Slava is the co-founder and director of the digital home system based in Melbourne. He has a wealth of experience in a field of smart home and uh it’s actively sourcing already from a lot of Asian countries.
And I think their company also distribute a lot of smart home related product through their e-commerce channel and retail channels uh so maybe can you can add a little bit more um to to to intro.
Miroslav Reitikh: Thank you Masa for this opportunity uh I’m representing company digital home systems from Melbourne where we are in the market for last 13 years. So far and we are distributor and importer of smart home devices from the different Technologies uh we don’t directly with the our retailers and installers and the other companies and providing them technical support and obviously devices where started we did start at 13 years ago with the only z-wave technology that was quite innovative at the time but now we have around 3-4 different Technologies including KNX including ZigBee Island and on and on and on.
So just like not only one but multiple we’re dealing currently with a few companies from Taipei and some companies from Hong Kong so quite experience in this area I would say. Happy to help you and uh I’m happy to just provide as much as possible information for companies who wants to deliver to Australia and who is buying from Asia as well because we again a lot of experience during all those years.
Masa Chen: Thanks for joining and welcome to the panel discussion. And last um I’m going to invite you to Paul. So Paul is the executive director of IBMS, a smart building system integration company, I think it’s one of the leading because they are in this business for so long. Paul himself has a wealth of experience in Smart Building smart offices and assistant integration um so welcome Paul welcome. oh and if you don’t mind maybe uh introduce yourself a little bit.
Paul Dearlove: Yeah and thank you Masa and thank you everyone for the opportunity to to join the the panel today much appreciated. Yeah so we’re what’s called a master systems integrator. So we have a a software platform that we use to integrate um arrange of um Control Systems and IoT devices across a range of different buildings. So we’ve done commercial office space, universities, uh healthcare, and data centers as sort of some of the examples and and retail portfolio chain enrollments. And as Masa pointed out we’ve been now doing it for 18 years so we are getting a bit um been around a fair while and and seen uh had a lot of experience with with bringing all of this technology together for for clients.
Masa Chen: Thank you welcome to the welcome to the discussion uh so so today our discussion will uh basically be three parts uh the first part is about the market of smart home Smart Building and smart offices.
And just to recap a little bit uh Slava is the guy to talk to when it comes to b2c and smart home. Paul is the guy to talk to when comes to B2B and Smart Building and smart offices and system integration in that domain. And also when it comes to retail and David and Nicholas has a wealth of experience in that. Matthew is really knowledgeable in the field of how consumer perceive the Australian market and also he has done some research in the retail domain so he’s also the guy to talk to for that.And Frank I think in general, he can provide a great understanding of the ICT industry and also how Taiwanese companies can penetrate the Australian market. uh Frank also has some uh regulation compliances knowledge in this domain so we’re gonna talk about that a little bit more about that.
So it’s gonna be uh the market related in the first one and the second one is regulation the third one is market penetration and along with system integration and after we go through the the big topic for today’s uh we’re gonna go to the question forum suppliers and we’ll pick three suppliers can ask just ask whatever you want and we’ll pick 3 to ask your expert and speakers today alright so uh let’s get to the question.
Smart Home - Market Overview
Mason Chen: So the first question is about a smart home a wait I think I’m.. please give me a second I think I’m not sharing the screen right sorry.
Alright so the first question is about smart home and as I said lava is the domain expert here. So uh for some a big percentage of our suppliers are in the segment of smart home related products and solutions so could you maybe tell us a little bit about what the market is like so for example what kind of product sales the best and you know how many homes are upgrading your house that kind of things
Miroslav Reitikh: Well what should I start with with.. Actually my company started thirteen years ago. Thirteen years ago we started promoting Z-wave technology that’s the Wireless Technologies specifically for the smart homes and small offices.
At that time it was quite innovative and one of the best technologies available in the market but with the years uh we can see more and more technologies coming and they’re kind of like independent we can see big chunk of ZigBee for the last few years appearing on Australian market and few more things like even Wi-Fi. We are not big fans of Wi-Fi but because of the price it’s visible how everywhere.
In the industrial and office spaces we noticed that for the last few years, everything moving towards more solar system and I would say that KNX is growing up in Australia every year more and more. So it’s a.. I believe you know that guys, that it’s European technology and spreading around the world like uh plague now because it’s a so solid. it’s open source. Uh multiple companies around the world including Taiwanese and Chinese company started making those devices. It’s very solar system so for industry on BMS systems the only one technology I would say it will be a solid for 24 by 7 no issues at all and quality is much more solid if anything else.
What we notice as well for expensive houses like a top market uh people now more keen to install KNX because they can when they are building house and scripture some offices than anything else so in such situation wireless technology is not so available for them.
uh I would say like a few more uh points that uh some of the system on the market’s now integrated all together and uh recently we noticed some good messages from Silicon Labs the company you know as well. That they introducing uh alliance of the companies big companies under the name Matter, which will bring us all together under some framework level and until much then hustle to integrate all those Technologies. So we are looking forward to see if how gonna work.
Uh what we do notice from our experience uh the main systems for the massive market and just small offices that will be KNX, RTI, Elan, Control4 Servant and some proprietary systems as well. C-bus, uh.. slowly dying in my view, because like we have more than thousand accounts dealing with us across Australia and we’re getting news from the field from all those guys.
And they’re saying uh what’s going on right now so a lot of inquiries about KNX a lot of inquiries about uh combined system you would say including technology KNX and Z wave together and now for the low market we can see more Wi-Fi devices which is very cheap you can get cheaper than that.
Few sources from Europe like from Bulgaria we know that like those devices let’s say really cost around $6 on it or even like below $10 everything so it’s a big storm coming and if pricing will be dropping we will have a lot of uh disturbance on the market I would say there is opportunity for Taiwanese suppliers to get into this uh market and but they have to prepare those products specifically for Australia it’s not the same like in United States not the same like Europe because what we uh notice demand is different in Australia. Very different.
Masa Chen: I see. So I think one thing I’m also really curious about is so so we we get from a system integration point of view from the competition point of view. How about from the customer point of view, so usually, like, when as a Australian when what kind of person they say hey I’m gonna build a smart home or when do they upgrade their home that kind of thing so what does the decision process look like?
Miroslav Reitikh: The decision will be based on few criterias. First like it will be first safety.For the new houses people would consider to have CCTV including intercom and they would have everything on their phone that’s the one. Then the second level will be more advanced people they will will ask you about smart lighting how to put all together. And then it will be something else, then for my uh for people who is money that will be obviously home Theater and some system across the whole house and even on the backyard some lights for outside some motion sensors for outside and they want to see from one app on the phone they now wants to have only one app.
I would probably split uh market for those uh clients for a few categories. first so obviously top and market where they not counting money much and obviously will be a KNX RTI ELAN and SERVANT. Then it will be houses new houses where they have probably less budget and it will be the system CCTV intercom security and some kind of like uh smart home with the lights and some sensors.
And the below medium level will be uh hobbyist who will do themselves uh smartphone based on Google home and buying themselves all those devices and trying to install everything themselves. Obviously it’s not our market it’s for suppliers it is. But not for us because we are dealing with installs, no money in this segment much. always problems and always like they want to have the cheapest possible.
One more segment I would uh I’m not sure if you aware of this there is a in Australia and solutions for disabled people and that’s a totally different market so it’s going through the installers going through the approval from the government agencies and they have their own systems and they have own requirements this is totally different market but still serving them all those smart devices because this is what I said about the combined systems.
Masa Chen: Understood ok. So um.. also could you also tell us a little bit about the consumer electronic retail landscape so uh it’s like um where do people buy this kind of product so so we have like a few segment of consumers so one they want to like a total solution the whole package and they’re one they want to source that individual product so for for those kind of uh consumer where do they usually go to shop.
Miroslav Reitikh: This is a big question Masa asked because like if you would know we will just put our efforts in this area. uh I would say like people start browsing online see what is available for Australia then they’re going to Amazon and then going some big retails like JB Hi-Fi and similar and even Harvey Norman. However all those guys only books smaller, no one is providing technical support and then they’re on their own to get some information and set up um system in the right way.
So if your computer literature it’s easy, if not it’s a big problem that’s why they’re giving up and then just sending back devices and trying to find something else. Some of them just giving up because most of those system got available they’re very simple, but some of them quite complex and you have to have knowledge to set them up.
Masa Chen: mhm I see and also uh also so I want to add a few things so uh if any speakers would like to add a few things, feel free to interrupt me. uh I think we can uh this event is uh just purely for discussion so as many Insights we can get out of it as possible.
That’s a one last question I’m I’m I have is uh for smart home is do you would you source a lot of product from overseeing so what was that experience like what what kind of challenges do you usually have to face.
Miroslav Reitikh: Well challenges uh ok you’re talking about Asian market or are you talking about the European market what is your market.
Masa Chen: I think Asian Asian market specifically
Miroslav Reitikh: Well uh, it’s very important for Asian companies to understand how and what you’re gonna sell in Australia and New Zealand because like it’s totally different market we have different criteria we have different expectations and all those products should be prepared for us.
You can’t just sell what you’re selling in Taiwan directly in Australia because uh our expectation of the manuals is one thing. in Taiwan is totally different things. Our expectation of the technical support is different with the Asian you know like a lot of things have to be polished I would say. Because when we getting product from the Europe uh the quality of those products much much higher you know maybe life expectancy is the same but quality and the books and appearance much much higher start from the design of the enclosure and finishing with the books.
So those guys who wants to be in Australian market they have to understand that market and see that. Not exactly for smart home but everything here should be prepared in the way what people used to buy here.
Smart Buildings and Smart Offices - Market Overview
Mason Chen: Ok, understood, alright. So the the second big topic I have is for Paul which is about Smart Building so could you also tell us a little bit about the market like the market adapting of Smart Building Technologies since ibms is a very very well recognized brand in this Smart Building sector so like what what are the reason consumers are upgrading their buildings what are the specific products that are the most in demand in the market.
Paul Dearlove: Yeah, thanks Masa, so probably um we we started off as sort of originally in the consulting space around technology and how building owners were using that technology um and the market there was traditionally from sort of the old industrial style controls uh BMS systems security and access.
So the the vendors that come to mind in the global vendors people like Honeywell semen’s uh Schneider Johnson Controls that dominate the market uh even here in Australia. Uh and from a little bit of the work that I ended up in Taiwan many many years ago um yeah a lot of distributors of those products up there and it that has been the case for the probably the last 30 years.
One of the things that had led to was a lot of customers being very dissatisfied for that they were locked into this sort of product vendor support ecosystem where you know I buy the product from the same vendor and then they go on and support it for 20 or 30 years and there was not a lot of innovation in the sector either.
So we we sort of started down our path of helping customers get more out of it and what what really drove the shift I’d say mostly in commercial buildings initially, was that uh owners were looking for some differentiation what what will make their building stand apart from someone else.
And initially um probably I think I’d say 15 20 years ago the big differentiator was around green buildings so we saw the uptake people at the Green building council in Australia and lead in the US uh Breanne in uh in the UK and driving this concept at um yeah green buildings were better for you as a as a tenant and therefore they would attract you know a a better quality of tenant and make your building stand out a bit more.
Um at that time technology was not still seen as a bit old.. a bit you know I’ve got a traditional system and I’m not really that concerned about it we really pushed this idea that rather than have these sort of old uh locked in systems that it would be better to integrate technology together and we saw a boom in technology as well being applied in buildings uh so we’ve worked on projects like uh Barangaroo here in Sydney where I’m based.
Um uh projects for some of the major um property owners like Charter Hall and Easter and ISPT and AMP and what they were, um based then saw that this next differentiation was what could we use technologies to get better results yeah better outcomes for our tenants. Um yeah delivering more to their their mobile phones so seeing apps that you know that a tenant uh an occupiers the building can use to be able to do things like uh larger logic
fault report um use the Bluetooth for access control um you know be able to book a car park uh be able to book a locker in the change facilities and to have that unified experience on one app you couldn’t do that when you had all these different systems so being able to pull that together was seen as a an advantage and we yeah that kind of drove the commercial building sector here from oh it’s kind of a novelty to now it’s seen as in commercial buildings in Australia has mandatory that you have an integrated platform.
Um alongside that and this is sort of very similar to you know sort of a look at the product range at Slava seeing in the in the home market they’re also being driven into it is really revolutionizing what buildings can achieve because you no longer have to have devices that are wide into an old BMS system if I want to get an indoor environment quality sensor I can go and get an iot based one and take that into an existing building and start.
uh wireless-based IQ senses into the space or people counting so uh now after covid the whole idea of how many people are in the building how you know where are they occupying are they too close together so can we get that data from say a modern line in control system rather than the old C-bus which you couldn’t get much out of and um yeah so all of these drivers and demands are really pushing where’s the next bit of Technology and can I deploy it easily in my building uh so we’re now buildings of um 50 60 different pieces of Technology and and towing them together.
Cause for the owners and the facility managers they need to be able to manage and operate these and get maximized the amount of information there. From there commercial buildings then got into healthcare um so large hospitals you know we’re seeing 60 70 different systems you’ve got a tie together um and uh yeah then into university sector yea and how do you link technology with the student experience so we’re working on a project in Canberra where they wanna be able to deliver it up to the the students.
Oh I have again a student app at a backpack that has my time table um the the lecturers can be able to uh they can look at the um the number of students that are attending on site cos they’ve got to let information well we might need to room so instead of a big lecture there let’s go to a small tutorial space sign it on the fly.
Everyone get gives them access uh control, has all the audio visual tied into that so this flexibility that comes with having good technology um sound technology, being able to often experience is really what’s driving the adoption of these sort of integrated and iot type technologies in in across all the build commercial building sector.
Mason Chen: I I think one of the question um the member from Wow! Taiwan Project most curious about is how do they work with like a local system integrator, so when our we now get inside Australians for example for smart buildings smart offices how do they work with them so what’s the process be like
Paul Dearlove: Yeah I will take that one in the first instance. As an integrator so um there isn’t I mean there are some Technologies that are um made by manufacturers here in Australia but but by and large the great amount of this technology comes from overseas.
Um so we’re always looking for um and our clients are always looking for good solid technology that supported um and I think Slava, one of the other speakers will talk about the the legislative framework of regulation about bringing technology into Australia and that’s important.
Because we’re mostly looking for a distributor that yeah understands the product and most importantly can support it uh and then the other thing we look for as an integrator is an open method of communication we need to be able to get data from these systems um so we want to our first point of call is an open standard so whether it’s a standard protocol like KNX or Modbus.
Um and but also more and more we’re seeing APIs particularly for cloud-based Solutions where the data’s going to cloud um but if if it has a an API that’s clean well documented you know an open API standard. that just makes our life so much easier and we will preference products that either have an open standard room open API.
Mason Chen: I see. So do you guys like actively um look for actually look for products from overseas or even potentially just source it from them or it may understanding so and understanding correctly do you guys do the sourcing part of the technology. This is also for Paul.
Paul Dearlove: yeah ok uh no we don’t as a general rule. Um usually that technology is being provided by other contractors um on the building whether it’s a mechanical or an electrical contractor uh electrical contractor’s particularly here in Australia provide a lot of that technology in buildings uh whether it’s lighting or metering or um uh sort of CCTV all those sorts of range of Technology.
And they that they’re sourcing that product they again I think most of them were feel comfortable dealing with a local Australian distributor first and foremost because they want to know that the you know the regulation certifications have been done and things like the RCM mark or the old CE Mark uh for uh EMC compliance.
And they also want to know the products can be supported the if there’s a problem with the product yeah they they really liked the ability to have a first port of call someone locally but also the advantage for Taiwan of course compared to a you know within Australia’s we’re roughly in the same time zone as Perth 2 hours behind Sydney so if we do need to get technical support having yeah having that support on the line is um is pretty important.
Regulation & Compliance in Australia For IoT Devices
Mason Chen: I see I think thanks alot for Paul. Alright so the next big topic is regulation compliance I think Paul uh told us some our cm compliance you know they’re kind of things that um Australian buyer cares about they definitely need uh so this question would be for call so sorry for for Frank so Frank what are some of the regulatory or compliance problem you think uh Taiwanese supplier will face
Frank Mahmud: I have to remember to get off mute that’s a that’s a very common common zoom mistake. Yeah, I think Paul hit on uh Paul touched on it a little bit and I think uh I think maybe Paul and Slava would be um fantastic people to get a bit more depth uh insight uh on a specifically as well
But to to put it in a nutshell so it’s basically um it’s compliance right it’s compliance it’s something that’s done through uh the regulatory authorities as well as the uh Australian communication Media Authority.
And it’s basically to ensure that this uh it’s I mean to to simplified it’s actually a market that’s put on the product to kind of uh certify the safety it meets certain standards it’s meant certain testing. Uh you know it’s you you might be familiar of something called EC which is which is more like in Europe European standard uh the RC applies directly to Australia.
It is expected as as per regularly law that they are I mean I think in my experience I’ve actually seen products that don’t have it. Uh but then you really risk um uh obviously it it’s it it’s a risk to market uh um but maybe I can back to Paul or Slava to see if they have some on-site experience with it.
Miroslav Reitikh: I can help you in this area because our sales doing uh certifications and been dealing with the manufacturers to help them to do certification many times and this uh quite tedious and expensive procedure.
So Australian regulation required all devices sold in Australia with the 240 volts AC a certified according Australian rules none of the Europeans and the United States regulations not qualified in Australia at all.
So when manufacturers saying they’ve done certification we’ve done all test reports within safety reports nothing is working for Australia. All manufacturers have to go to Australia authorities check the criteria what they need certified, certify against and do those testing exactly like it said in that documents. There are a few companies in Australia they have license to provide all assessments and do help them with certification one of them SAA in Queensland and few more and they will help them.
Ourselves we’ve been using Intertech in Hong Kong who is doing and they have authority Global authority to do certification for Australia so before even entering to Australian market companies have to check if that device requires certification electric safety radio AMC everything.
And then just uh get the course because like sometimes it’s the price so higher it’s for them it’s probably too much you know they can cost up to one device simple device can cost only certification part up to 50 thousands.
Ok so if it’s in there budget or not in their budget you know even to have a samples they have some basic certification. If they have left lab at their house they can do themselves at least for the initial but for the volumes they they must do certification according Sterling standards ok if it’s below 50 volts it’s ok they can do but they still have to provide EMC report that is not a polluting anything around it. Uh it’s a quite big topic so probably should have another conference.
Frank Mahmud: Hey Slava, just a quick just a quick follow-up on that. You know, I would assume you know obviously there’s compliance in every country right? Whenever you want to enter uh there. Would it be the same issues with every country.
I would assume in my experience that these organization these manufacturers and suppliers would go through a certain level of testing um uh to get their market uh to get the products approved for other markets. So you know a similar position. So I’m guessing there are certain level of testing would have been done right so from scratch.
Miroslav Reitikh: Frank, that is the problem you know. uh European requirements totally different. Some of them they’re just similar but still we have much higher level of assurance that that device will be safe for to sell anyone in Australia ok.
Same not it’s only with the electric devices but even for devices for plumbing uh without Watermark you can’t sell those devices in Australia if it’s smart home not smart home for the building for anything else it should be marked that it was certified. And it’s quite tedious process. And cost as well even for the simple one uh. It will cost you just for to keep it uh running at least between 5 and 10 thousand a year only just annual cost of it to keep the license. So any company who wants to enter Australian market they have to check what requirements are otherwise it will cost them and they will give up and to do so.
Retail Landscape For Smart Home Products
Mason Chen: I see.. thanks a lot for your updates Slava. And oops and the next question in the next big topic I think it’s about uh consumer so this is a question for David uh David so could you tell us and could you give us like an overview of what the consumer electronic retail landscape look like in Australia or also some of the more retail sector that you are familiar with yeah
David Cowell: Yeah thanks Masa. so um as we sort of touched on before we’re a uh a publishing house so part of our role is to uh deliver information to um not only the uh the the retailer but also via the retailer to the consumer. So in in our role and responsibility where where publication that is delivered to it’s close to 2000 retailers across Australia on a monthly basis and that’s our retail world publication. so we’re talking about Coles Woolworths um Aldi and then a multitude of independence. And then our grocery uh sorry convenience publication is going to uh pretty close to 8,000 convenience stores and that can range from petrol stations all the way through to to cafes so there’s quite a range of information uh that has been delivered through to these uh retailers on a regular basis.
We also do have a pharmacy publication which uh touches on areas that um Slava was talking about before such as NDIS etc. um where patience uh come into pharmacy looking for products that can either um help with them servicing their health uh and they’ll also have discussions in and around uh digital technology that’s now currently available for them in areas such as diabetes and blood pressure and um weight loss management and so on and so forth.
When it comes to the consumer what what we’ve seen and it’s it’s been very interesting with covid in particular is that while um you know grocery retail has predominantly been in and around what you would consider FMCG. So you know everywhere from you know from your your drinks to your breakfast cereals you know all all your daily grocery needs there is a growing area within uh in that retail that grocery market for electronics um yeah traditionally it’s been your kettle your toasters um microwaves some you know small coffee machines etc
But there’s definitely been uh an adaptation to uh to smart devices so um yeah the last couple of years as I mentioned with covid coming in a lot of those stores those grocery stores those large retail outlets. uUh we’ll pretty much the only stores that we’re able to be open so we’ve seen um definitely coming into that market uh prepaid smartphones. So phones that people can buy and then continue to to purchase the um uh their credits for on a monthly basis.
Uh we’ve seen um some smart home items such as bulbs and um connected devices such as that light bulbs etc charging um portals for for smartphones and other technologies and then moving into um headsets and uh all other manner of devices that are in and around that sort of smart home smart office tech area. So I think that’s an area that’s that’s definitely gonna seem more growth.
With convenience so all of our petrol stations, cafes and so on and so forth. Again we’ve sent a a surge in the market where service stations in particular and now seen as that opportunity when you’re driving through to be able to pick up not just your petrol but there are small grocery items in there now. But also again moving towards in car technology items uh items that can help with you know charging your smartphone your headsets.
Um even now with you know you can start to see um some other areas moving in such as them becoming their own cafe so there’s an opportunity for other items such as um you know coffee machines and so on and so forth moving in there as well. Um but there’s some some of the areas that Nicholas and I were were reviewing um and probably make a good uh example that you gave to me was in regards to the um I think it was the actual automated um menu uh robot that um need and then we’ve actually seen in one of the clients and suppliers as well.
Yeah so Nick if you could give us a just a a brief overview of that I think that would also um be a good Insight.
Nicholas Rider: Yeah so going through um the suppliers um yesterday, we noticed that there was um it was the supplier offering um sort of the smart robots and it looked like it was sort of used for sort of the Food Service sort of um space.
And David and I sort of thought um that might be you know something cos we’ve convenience world um as that sort of the the lines crossed between um just your typical sort of petrol and convenience and your food service and food to go and things like that um and cafes having those sort of robots you know serving serving food I think you know Australia’s a little bit behind in that sort of aspect I’ve you know.
I’ve seen in Sydney we’ve we have a there’s a Japanese chain I believe it is um got me chicken and um you know they’ve started trialing those sort of um those robots and I feel like something like that could be a a great opportunity to push that further um in Australia cos that sort of something that we might sort of be like in yeah.
Frank Mahmud: And I know it’s not um uh I I just wanted to add something. I just ask a quick question. I think it’s really interesting um with what David’s saying with Nick saying and what Paul kind of started off with saying.
Uh you know Australia might not be you know the forefront of the you know acquisition of smart technologies or the information of smart technologies but I think covid’s kind of change that hasn’t it?
Uh Covid has really kind of um uh forced us to to look at automation to look at you know more efficient ways of doing things um and and and and I’m just curious uh uh to maybe we can save this for the end of the question uh or uh for the Q&A section but I’d really like to understand what other opportunities uh the team here feels uh that we may not have thought of traditionally pre-covid uh that maybe opportunities uh post-covid.
David Cowell: Yeah good point Frank uh one of the areas that we’ve definitely seen is uh in particular uh gross such as Aldi um who were very keen to to buck the trend of uh you know just being a a provider of your your day to day-to-day meals and food source etc um they regularly have uh smart technology uh uh install that you can purchase uh anywhere from from large um LCD TV screens through to some home office technology as well.
Uh so they’ve really taken on board the uh I guess the their you know as they’ve got the floor space and they’ve got people moving through their stores that they definitely looking at capitalize on that space and uh there’s a yeah as as look in Australian particular Woolworths and Coles um you know and a few of the other bigger bigger chains, they really push the the consumer trends and it was really interesting to see.
And I think Slava you mentioned that meeting the low price point where it’s your home hobbyist someone that’s looking to just trial it and do it themselves. I think it’s a really good entry point so if you’re looking to I guess educate it’s always best to start with the lowest common denominator; start with with an area where people go I’m gonna try that smart home bulb with an app etc at home.
And then from there they move into and onto um you know utilizing services such as Slava mention where you can have a a complete home system set up which controls your your television, you’re blinds, um your lights, your heating, so on and so forth.
You know it is a it becomes that sort of whole uh ecosystem of of home electronics and home office that becomes uh a lot more easier for the consumer to understand once they’ve been given something that that sort of early to mid entry point that’s not too difficult for them to grasp but gives them almost like a a test it and see kind of opportunity uh our role and mine and Nick’s role is to provide that information about products etc and so on and so forth at that mid to low point more than likely um to retailers here in Australia so they can make decisions as to potentially um what they might look to stock and and offer um to the you know 24 – 25 million Australians that are now shopping in those centers.
Frank Mahmud: What the the interesting thing uh the interesting thing I mean I don’t know if anybody else picked up but Slava made a very very strong point uh which is you know how smart technology friendly or Savvy is the average consumer. Right?
I mean can you go into a Telstra store and buy smart technology and implement that in your home I mean I I consider myself fairly smart when it comes to it I I have an it degree right but if I have to go into a store and buy smart blinds I’m not gonna be able to install that.
And and I think smart blind is the very basic uh or even like a you know like a Google you know control my home kind of a technology I don’t think I can implement that. That’s what’s a very interesting conversation about you know is the market for smart technology retail consumer or is it you know uh these companies that can educate you or is it the the magazine publications that educate you or is it a mixture of all so it’s interesting it’s a very interesting uh dilemma.
Miroslav Reitikh: Frank, it’s uh.. let me interrupt you for a sec that was the biggest failure from the Telstra point of view when they try and a few years ago introduce their smart home. Someone from United States sold them solution was was dedicated only for the United States with the user experience with the device is with the old Technologies specifically for the audience for United States.
And I would say because I have my relatives in United States as well and they’re not very smart there and that’s why they’re using smart technology so for Australia market yeah you have to create uh totally different Solutions.
So I said we have to have local localization for Australia you know because people are different here.Difference you know uh estimation for for all those smart Technologies so one company creating something they have to investigate market they have to check what people wants here and based on that even design should be changed and everything should be done what people will buy want.
You know there’s there’s a simple thing you know so do the search see what people like and the specifically for the country do different device different package different arrangement different menu because all those manuals they have to be so crystal clear that you have no issues from the beginning.
You know that’s the you it’s called user experience yeah manufacturer has to understand that without it they can’t sell those devices, even if it’s great device they have to make a package and make like flawless delivery. And then they should still have customer support.
Frank Mahmud: Yeah absolutely uh I think you make a very good point. I think being able the I’m not sure I think it was Paul mention it I think the support uh is very very important uh sometime time zones can be an absolute nightmare but I I think when you’re selling a product having that back end support uh when you have issues I think that’s that’s critical
Miroslav Reitikh: I think it’s a very good point as well there is another very poet because like uh we’re dealing with the Chinese companies as well and for them it’s very hard to say that they don’t understand requirements you know they say yes but they end of the you know exercise we can see that they don’t understand what they’re saying and they don’t understand those requirements better say no from the beginning then after the project is finished.
You know so if you if it’s clear don’t hesitate because it’s in this culture you have to say yes or no. If it is not clear for people to say again and again until everyone is on the same page communication I think it’s fine to understand English but communication is a different different ball game right.
Australian Market in General & Their Perspectives of Foreign Brands
Mason Chen: I see.. thanks a lot for your updates Slava. And oops and the next question in the next big topic I think it’s about uh consumer so this is a question for David uh David so could you tell us and could you give us like an overview of what the consumer electronic retail landscape look like in Australia or also some of the more retail sector that you are familiar with yeah different different ball game right.
Matthew Densten: how about I give the audience of insight around Australia as a market and probably has a little bit different to Taiwan so I might just take a few steps back so.
In Australia 2/3 of people own their own home yep I think in Taiwan it’s slightly higher pretty high home ownership in Australia.
Um so that’s an important factor you know people have their own home people are buying into are the new homes so they’re ideally set up with your technology or they’re buying into existing homes that don’t don’t have the technology set up um Australians spent $12 billion on renovations last year.
Yeah.. Australians love to renovate so I think if you think about um smart technology you know when is it when are the moments to to sell someone smart technology I’m talking only in the home here.
Obviously buying a home is a big one. When people are buying a home they’re probably thinking about what they’re setting up when they’re renovating at home they might be thinking about it.
Um so those are sort of key moments and I think key opportunities for anyone looking to sell I mean anything in someone’s homes like they’re really important. In Australia you you probably have noticed this in Taiwan as well.
Australians are very much moving into a more sustainable um mindsets so so things like you know light bulbs that that switch on and off at certain times you know conserving power is is becoming more of a factor with the changing government that we’ve had here so previously we’ve had other governments haven’t bothered too much about the environment but the the government that’s in power now very much focused on the environment.
um the other thing to remember is Australia’s going through a massive as we are globally inflations are really big big problems so um anything that helps people save um on cost of living is is gonna be really really important. Um but just talk a little bit about smart technologies and this is just we’ve done a little bit of work in the space it’s probably going back 2 or 3 years ago now with a main technology provider more of a I won’t mention the client.
But they were looking to understand that the market and try and get a sense of what the consumers are thinking um I think what we’ve found in Australia in particular is a lot of a lot of people a lot of the early adopters um into smart technologies had a pretty pretty ordinary experience.
They weren’t they weren’t very happy with what happened and so I think the promise you know you see the video of someone walk into the house and they clap their hands and all this sort of great stuff happens. Um you know that that wasn’t really delivered I think in Australia so you’ve got a you’ve got a group of people that are probably a little bit burnt and have maybe spent money on that. Um so I think the market is definitely maturing and the guys have talked a lot about that already.
So I think um you know that there’s definitely a high desire for for smart homes in Australia I think the technology is there and people really want to see that in in their homes. Um and it’s a great it’s a great opportunity for for a number of different things.
So I think the opportunities there I think if you think about just to go back to your question Masa around you know our country of origin and and I guess people’s perceptions of different products I mean the stereotypes that um you know Chines um you know manufacturing you know maybe not the historically not the greatest quality I think that’s probably something that probably goes across lots of different things.
Um wrongly or rightly I think that’s been the perception. I think Japanese Technologies always been seen as a really premium technology. I would’ve thought I think generally from an Australian perspective their knowledge of Taiwan and the Taiwanese market we’re pretty limited I think they wouldn’t really necessarily understand they might see you in this this is probably a very controversial comment you know it’s probably part of part of part of the mainland and obviously that’s not true but that’s where people probably see you know Australia’s understand.
I mean I lived in Hong Kong for 5 years and coming back home it’s just people just don’t have an understanding of Asia. I think it I think that’s improving um I think all the experts on the call have a pretty good understanding so I think whenever you’re going and and probably selling prop you know this is more talking to the the consume it’s really about emphasizing that the benefits of what the Taiwanese technology is and what you’re doing in the in the space.
And just one other insight that I’ll leave you with, is that um you know work from home in Australia’s become a really big trend so I think something like 40% of people work from home now either once a day or regularly so I think interesting when Paul was talking about Barangaroo and and how they’re setting these places up that actually this idea of being able to integrate with the home and the office
I think Australians are like here I’m at home now um there’s been a real struggle about how how people integrate both office and the home and I think that’s also a really interesting uh trend that that you know is shaping our market a little bit when it comes to technology.
System Integration of Smart Buildings and Smart Homes
Mason Chen: I see. so.. Paul maybe uh maybe you can also provide us some insight when it comes to you know trends in the smart building smart offices and potentially even better could you like also provide some tips for Taiwanese supplier to get into the market of Smart Building and smart offices.
Paul Dearlove: um oh yeah trends uh the biggest trend we see in the commercial World. Um it’s definitely some of the ones I alluded to before they the focus on indoor environment colleagues come off of the back of covid and um space utilization how space is being used because to Matthew’s point I think vacancy rates in commercial offices have only just got back to sort of and when I say like number of people on the floors it’s sort of ending up back around to 50%.
So building commercial buildings are half vacant uh you know during the week. Um so the technology that helps owners understand space and how it’s being used is a great interest quality of the environment quality um the the whole energy crisis is now the next one on the list.
It used to be much less of an issue but with the you know the the whole East Coast Australia is suffering from sort of massive increases in gas um prices and and it’s going to flow on into energy prices so anything that can help save money in that sector or help them identify energy wastage um would be a good one.
uh if you look if you have any of your um uh any of the people watching this or in um energy metering uh that’s of interest cos it’s a bit of a narrow market but it is again very tightly regulated it has another layer of regulation beyond just the CE compliance or the RCM compliance there’s another set of regulations around that but it is a um a pretty lucrative market because smart metering upgrades are becoming a a really big thing um just to help with the energy management uh demand control.
uh so we’re doing uh projects in fact we’re doing one with ALDI at the moment looking at demand side control of their refrigeration plant and air conditioning so being able to turn off um but yeah equipment to meet the peak demands of the site control um solar panel control that sort of thing so anybody in that sector um there’s a lot of interest in demand around those sectors in the commercial world
Miroslav Reitikh: I would say uh solar battery is a big demand now like a still have solar panels and now they’re looking how to make even cheaper for them. They are looking for the solar batteries good quality and with the obviously Australian approval.
Paul Dearlove: I can add a personal note to that cos I’ve just put in a 8 1/2 kW system on my house so that was easily paid for but I couldn’t pay for the batteries to go with it.
Miroslav Reitikh: Yeah because it’s very expensive I would say price for the Chinese good quality batteries cost for the installer around uh 8 to $9000 for 10kW. Tesla uh selling you installed uh what was the 11 kW for $17,000. So which is like a quite big money but people still wanted to install it so if some of them manufacturers decided you know get on Australian market they have proper certification.
There is an unlimited opportunity. And it will be to you to get those uh batteries you know and especially if they have some integration in another system that’s another opportunity to attach to existing systems as well people asking all the time for that yeah few more you know like pole set for the building automation and the safety uh some air filters with the UV license size something like for the offices to just send it to rise.
Spaces would be great because nothing on the market maybe some additions for the HVAC system to you know like in the United States they have special UV system to just like clean air all the time for the cycle so there are a lot of opportunities just like to you have to check uh local conditions local regulations and then just 5 years.
Paul Dearlove: Sorry Slava reminded me that the federal government is pulling a lot of money into schools. Federal government is tipping a lot of money into every school in Australia to try and improve your circulation and air purification so people products in that market. It’s gonna be a big demand in Australia for in the coming months alright.
System Integration of Smart Buildings and Smart Homes
Mason Chen: So one last question I have I think it’s I think 60 something percentage of our member suppliers are in the segment of smart home so uh over the conversation discussion, Slava has provided us a lot of insights into how foreign suppliers should you know navigate in Australia market for example like communication, like design localization, regulations, can you give us like a final takeaway. You know, so we can all take notes of. So like could you give the supplier some tips in entering the Australian market?
Miroslav Reitikh: Well uh we’ve been dealing with my one Taiwanese companies who hire special person who was working overseas who was selling on overseas marketing when this person one girls she was working for a few years in Canada with the local knowledge.
You know and she was like a consultant, because she knew what was sailing there and she had some technical education as well. And it was much easier for them to understand.
You know she was like a translator between Canadian market and Taiwanese company you know like because if you have no internal resources you better get someone pay money to do it.
I would probably suggest to get someone on the half your representative in Australia I’ll get some company who wants to deal with you and listen what they’re saying.
Masa Chen: mhm I see alright so I think we can get through some suppliers question uh so let’s see I’m gonna check my chat room. Alright so the first question is so if Taiwanese suppliers has their own smart home app and uh they’re smart home or office products and they want to enter the Australian market. So would you recommend them to use their own application platform or they work with their local system integrator. Or they have to support Apple Google or Amazon. Which is the better way to do it?
Miroslav Reitikh: it depends on the product because like Amazon doesn’t care about your product they do care about only profit. You know if it’s applicable for them uh they will take it if it’s not perfect about they will just get some trials see if it’s working or not and then you’ll be only as a individual seller there not uh fulfilled by Amazon they have.
Do you remember that what I said from the beginning you have to localize everything because sometimes we saw uh application from Taiwanese market totally different design it’s just wasn’t even uh easy to understand for us how to use it because it was uh some of the parts were still on madarin thing and it was not ready to go.
You know they have to get someone to do user testing. See if it’s acceptable and then uh if they can provide support for that app. Because app is nothing just like a front end for the something behind it the where their framework sits, what the cloud there, or uh what they gonna provide for that application, because another thing is uh it’s very important to mention.
We don’t like much systems based only on the cloud. We have to have here just a local you know uh hardware where you can just have like a plan B, if you have no internet.
They have lots now in New South Wales before it was right no Internet what you’re going to do you know. Then you half of the building stopped working it’s not acceptable. We have to have like a plan B always here if you have no internet it should still work you know cloud Solutions only good for United States fast should be there in here as well mhm I see every solution should be very flexible.
Masa Chen: Understood. The second question so another really um I I I’m not sure if I can understand the question but so when it comes to applying for RCM certification, uh do they have to uh you know have the local partners to help with the application?
Miroslav Reitikh: No, what they require they require there are some standards uh some of them international standards some of them local standards Australian according electric code. And they are supplying some samples to company who gonna certify and test those devices mhm and deal with them directly then they will have test report from the authorized test house with that report.
With that report they can go to the local company here who has authorization to provide certification and costs around 1500 to get that certification as a certification. Ok? so the most important to get those authorized test reports for all criteria safety, EMC, and something else I can’t remember now. They can go directly to intertek in Hong Kong or Taiwan and deal with them directly they know everything
Masa Chen: Ok understood I see so the last question is so for is for Australian consumers. I think we actually touched on this one before so they are asking question like when it comes to sourcing uh they when it comes to consumer buying different brands of smart homes smart offices products how do they work with you know integrating that I think we touched on this before but the second follow-up question he has is uh product communication technology are most of them zigbee this is something… No?
Miroslav Reitikh: No absolutely not Zigbee the cheapest what you can get on the market because microchip costs around like a $0.50 and that’s why it’s a must uh product it could be using frequency 2.4 megahertz and uh it seems range as your router at your house for the month for example for multi level department buildings it’s a disaster because if you’re putting a lot of devices you will have problems with the communication will be all the time something because too many.
One of the last expo we’ve been in Melbourne uh we have just like a disaster with uh just getting internet access because more than 150 exhibitors had problem with the internet you know the same frequency. if they want to seek in the proper way with the building automation or home automation, I have to select something more solid.
So first obviously for that if it’s wireless it will be z-wave standards we just have special sequences for different countries they have special frequencies. For systems it would be I believe it would be KNX which has like a large bus system and it is International you know if they do for example uh devices in KNX it will work in here in the Europe in the Middle East everywhere in China as well.
So select proper technologies what is available on the market and not go to the mass market for do your own hobbies you know so this this is the way for at least to get some money, because if you’re selling your device for 5 bucks you’re not getting any money just like you’re moving boxes and the making happy some guys on the street no one else getting anything.
Masa Chen: yep I think ok for the same question uh um I would like to also get some uh feedback from Paul so when it comes to the sector of Smart Building and smart offices the is zigbee relevant or what are the technology looks like in that?
Paul Dearlove: yeah no we we don’t seem to be anymore. We did one job with a uh it was based on American probably I think that we don’t use it anymore we don’t see it at all. Um most of it is uh yeah sort of wide Technologies so uh back or MODBUS or KNX would be the biggest. Um we’re seeing a lot more with IoT devices a lot of devices using MQTT but that’s not a yeah it’s it’s a sort of encapsulating protocol. The detail behind that sort of different but that’s about you sending data to the cloud but locally we would see mostly backend MODBUS or KNX.
Yea I can’t think of too many others that but if it’s if it’s your own protocol or proprietary no one’s interested in it we don’t wanna know. And wireless technology uh yes I certainly don’t see much Zig-bee um probably a bit of low Rowan um stuff but I I’m kind of old school I’m a bit like a wireless it’s just so difficult to work with and we’re getting so many devices that are wireless now.
um I I saw an emergency lighting system that was interfering with um a um a safety system and you know we had to decommission one on this was in a shopping center site because we couldn’t reliably trust the emergency system to work um and they had to go to a wide system because it was just too much interference.
Miroslav Reitikh: I think I only one uh reliable Z wave protocol and they have certification from FCC, the federal commission Of Communication in the United States and security company using that for their smart devices specifically for the censors.
None of the other protocols not uh certified in United States it’s just like because of the frequency it’s a different frequency it’s not supposed to do anything for the smartphone you know..
Like Z wave was designed specifically only for the purpose company from Denmark was 20 years ago. and then it was sold to another company in San Diego and it was sold to silicon Labs now. They they actually own all those protocols.
But from the industrial point of view for the buildings for anything just the way if it’s OK because the penetrating all walls. Zigbee because it’s a higher frequency not going there the maximum you can get 10 m solid and then just forget about it.
Paul Dearlove: I might ask you um what about Bluetooth cos I do see some Bluetooth here.
Miroslav Reitikh: Bluetooth iss the same like it’s like we’ll work within 10 12 m only and it’s not designed for the building automation even like if you look at the framework for Z wave and Bluetooth for example uh quality products for the Bluetooth is Apple home. But still they’re not uh giving you range is more than 10 15 meters Z-wave uh the latest cheap was like up to 100 m communication between devices so much much more solid if you want to using Lora
Lora it’s a good thing but a bit different you know but it’s more for the industrial applications and systems like especially for your cases possibly
Paul Dearlove: Yeah thank you.
Masa Chen: I see thanks a lot. and also I think digital home systems company I think they before you have said you guys started 13 years ago and at the very beginning you guys were implementing z-wave of z z wave right?
Miroslav Reitikh: oh actually been looking for all technology myself I went to the uh Seattle Close to Redmond and see what people doing on those places you know what they’ve been experimenting with like at the time Microsoft wants only the company who was trying to do something about it.
And uh at the end in the United States I think z-wave was the only system they’ve been selling and buying the most company called now they belongs to another company and they selling in tens of thousand devices across uh United States and they start selling in Australia and on and on. And it was only one reliable protocol then if you can see zigbee starts appearing because it was much cheaper I would say if you’re paying $0.50 for microchip for zigbee, you paying around $5 for Z-wave because it’s a better quality and it’s specifically designed for building automation. So that’s why you know the price uh very important from manufacturers obviously but like a quality very important for end client so you have to find something in between to satisfy everyone.
It is a tedious process to select right technology but I would probably put my money on KNX specifically for the new houses because like it’s getting a bit cheaper and it’s getting more and more affordable. Um you you would pay for average system.. let’s say in half thousand for based on the next now you will pay for the same between 8 and 9000 installed. So before it was much much worse now it’s much better. pricing is getting better understood alright.
Masa Chen: I think that pretty much sums up the three question from our suppliers and we have 2 hours of time difference so that sound is probably going down Australia currently. so yeah so uh thank you all for all the great Insights and discussion uh I think we.. I personally learn so much alone so uh discussion to the Josh and maybe uh he can close up the the call.
Josh Kang: Ok. thank you all for participating in this event with us. This event is backed by the Bureau of Foreign Trade and hosted by the CDRI. We hope our discussion today can help enlighten our suppliers at Wow! Taiwan Project in the Australia’s IoT market and also facilitate cooperation between Australian and Taiwanese companies in this sector .thanks again for joining us have a good day.
Masa Chen: oh sorry, I want to add one more thing.. So for this year alone we have 30 plus suppliers that are already coming into Australia and it’s gonna start in a couple of weeks so uh hoping there probably will be more room for collaboration going forward yeah they are looking for local partner with that. Next year probably 100 more so yeah it’s really excited…
Frank Mahmud: Before the picture.. before the picture Masa, can I just add one more thing um I also wanted to say like I I have been uh chasing these gentleman for the last couple of weeks to get them to commit some time.
And I really did want um you know I I really did want to thank them so much for selflessly you know uh giving their time and just like I mean this event couldn’t have been any better I mean the amount of knowledge shared couldn’t have any been any better.
Uh and uh so I just really wanted to thank uh our our speakers here today. And I will be in touch in the future to kind of um you know keep the conversation going again thank you so much.
Masa Chen: Thanks a lot man and also thanks Frank for making this happen yeah maybe we can take a picture with uh suppliers, if they are not too shy to open up the camera and uh yeah so this is interesting so just what should we do that’s your idea?
Josh Kang: 歡迎大家請大家打開來鏡頭，大家都打開了嗎？one two three yeah ok thank you thanks everyone thank you everyone bye-bye.
All: Bye everyone..
Table of Contents
About this Panel Discussion
This panel discussion was made possible by the great support of the Bureau of Foreign Trade, CDRI, and OOSGA.
Huge thanks to all the experts joining the discussion including Paul Dearlove – Director at IBMS, Miroslav Reitikh – Co-founder at Digital Home System, Matthew Desnton, Partner at Fiftyfive5 – Daivd Cowell – Sales and Marketing Director at Retail Media, Nicholas Rider – Deputy Editor at Retail Media, Frank Mahmud, Member Relationship Manager – OOSGA.